How to Increase Monetization with Targeted Upsells — Brandon Gador, onX Maps

David Barnard:

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Let's get into the show. Hello. I'm your host, David Barnard. Today's conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat's State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial metric and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators. With me today, Brandon Gador, product lead for growth at onX Maps. On the podcast, I talk with Brandon about why product is the key to monetization, the psychology of value perception, and the often overlooked impact of simply reminding users that they're on the free plan.

Hey, Brandon. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today.

Brandon Gador:

Awesome. Thanks, Dave, for having me.

David Barnard:

So I'm really looking forward to chatting with you. I think a lot of folks in the subscription app industry don't know about onX. It's kind of this sleeping giant. Not as many folks in Silicon Valley or just in tech broadly are into hunting and fishing and outdoor hobbies. And so, they just don't realize what a great business onX is. 400 employees, millions of users. It's a pretty amazing app. And the thing I wanted to focus on today was increasing monetization through a combination of targeted upsells of premium features. And then, I do want to dig into also subscription tiers. Let's get that first one out of the way. How do you think about targeting users with that right upsell with the right feature to improve conversion?

Brandon Gador:

The most important thing, and this is true for any product, is the product really has to be solving a problem first. And so, you can't bring monetization in if there isn't value that the user's finding that they're willing to pay for. So I think before you can even start to think about monetization in those elements, like the product market fit. And, "Is this solving a problem that users deeply care about that they're willing to pay for?", is the most important thing. I think it's just important to start there when you're thinking about monetization is like the product market fit and, "Is this product really solving a problem?"

David Barnard:

And for folks who are struggling with monetization, that's really is genuinely like the first troubleshooting step is like understand with users, "Is this a product solving a problem or at least something people are willing to pay for?" So if you build a gimmick like, yeah, maybe you're going to monetize a little bit. But there's a lot of product problems that upstream of monetization problems, so I think it's a fantastic place to start.

Brandon Gador:

The next layer to that is really thinking about like, "Well, what is the monetization strategy?", and having a clear line of sight of that. And so, is it a trial type app where you're really trying to drive users in the trials to experience the value of the product or is it more of a freemium approach where you're just trying to gobble up a bunch of free users and then convert them over time? And I think having a clear strategy there really informs a lot of the following motions and the metrics you start to optimize. And so, those two elements are what I would make sure that are a solid first, before then you start diving into some of the monetization pieces.

David Barnard:

On freemium versus free trials, I know within onX Maps, which is actually kind of unique in the industry, you all have three or four different products. And some of those products have different strategies around whether you are just gobbling up users with a freemium strategy or doing the free trial strategy. And so, you're in a unique position working at a business that itself operates in multiple models. So I'd love your insights on why freemium or why onX chose it for the different products.

Brandon Gador:

What's really unique about our growth team at onX is that we're a horizontal team. And so, we actually work across all these apps that are at different stages of their life. And so, the Hunt app is the most mature. It's been around the longest. And then, the Backcountry app is actually the newer of the apps that we have.

And then, even within that... So you have this maturity stage of the business and the brand awareness. And so, that definitely plays a factor into it. But then, you also have like, "Well, what is the competitive landscape in these different areas?" And in the Hunt space, the competition is radically different than in the Backcountry space where you have, I'd say, a lot more freemium type products. You have more kind of casual use as far as if you think about AllTrails or Strava for instance, where there's more repeat usage over time. Where like hunting is very seasonal, there's specific seasons when you can go out and get out in the woods. And so, that really plays into the strategy around how we think about what we're optimizing for when it comes to monetization.

David Barnard:

So then, where does the rubber meet the road on converting those users and how do you think about that next piece of monetization?

Brandon Gador:

First and foremost, you need to educate users what is part of the paid tier. I think a learning that we've had is that users didn't even realize that they were in the free experience. And so, sometimes you just need to be making it really obvious that like, "Hey, you're part of a free product here and here's the value that you're missing behind the paywall." And so, I think education is the first motion I'd say and that's education around the paid tier. But then, even around the features themselves.

And so, some... I think we've been experimenting a lot with is just education within the features, trying to communicate the value to the user. What are the outcomes that we can drive for you as the user by upgrading into one of our paid tiers? That's a great place to start. And so, how are you playing with what features that users have access to over time? And really trying to understand, "What is the particular feature or the user outcome that is most going to drive users to want to pull out their wallet and upgrade into one of the paid tiers and really experience the value of the product?" And so playing with the access that users have to some of these features and be willing to experiment with that. Because I think you can have an idea or a strategy upfront around, "This is the basket of things in our paid tier," but I think you'll probably learn a ton if you start experimenting with that.

David Barnard:

Getting that freemium mix right is what can really drive a product forward, so I think it's an underexperimented with aspect of freemium subscription apps is actually moving features in and out of that freemium experience to figure out what's retaining people and what's actually driving monetization, so a fantastic tip.

Brandon Gador:

The previous podcast of yours that I love is the Headspace podcast and they talk about their journey down this path. And I reference that podcast all the time because, I mean, it's a really fascinating case study of how they played with access over time around their free user base. Then, when it comes to monetization, I think the third area I'd consider is you have these upsells, you're trying to drive traffic to a particular paywall. Now, you're at paywall optimization and I think that's another really critical area for teams to think about as far as the traffic that you're driving.

I know in your podcast you often talk a lot about the paywall view rate and really increasing that. And that's one of those levers to really think about is like, take freemium for instance, how often are your free users actually seeing the paywall? And what are the motions you can do to increase the paywall view rate? As well as then setting up capabilities so that you can run a lot of experiments pending volume, but run a lot of experiments on that actual paywall and really optimizing that. If you think about the things that we've been talking about of like education, feature access into the paywall, and like, "What is that end-to-end journey for the user and how are you connecting all those things?" There's some really interesting things to experiment and explore in those themes.

David Barnard:

I actually read recently that Duolingo is getting some backlash from free users because they are getting more and more aggressive about pushing people to the subscription. So how do you think about balancing the trade-off of annoying the free users and potentially causing churn. But then, hey, it's a business and we do need to monetize.

Brandon Gador:

It goes back to the monetization strategy and I think if you are... Let's say you're deploying a freemium strategy and you want to have this large pool of free users over time. Well, you're going to think about different things if it's really a trial-based product and we just want people to take the trial. Another thing that helps distinguish on that strategy is the TAM, the overall opportunity. If there's a really large TAM, like you mentioned like Duolingo, you can afford to probably have millions and millions of free users.

Whereas for some of our products, it's more niche. Specifically like in Hunt, it's much more of a trial strategy because that TAM isn't like everyone out trying to learn a new language.

Another thing that's helpful to get aligned as a team when you're working in this area is like, well, what are the metrics that we're optimizing for? And then, how do we think about the guardrail metrics of... If you want to be mindful of not pushing people away, "How are you thinking about repeat usage? How are you thinking about uninstalls? Are you monitoring tickets into your customer support team, App Store reviews? How do you get that holistic view of the user experience so that you are..."

Because at the end of the day, like I mentioned earlier, we had to communicate a lot to our users that you actually were in a free product. And sometimes, you have to get in front of them and it is going to be disrupting. But I think in that case, it was important to educate our users that you're actually missing out on all this value.

David Barnard:

One of the things that I think onX does really well is that you are monetizing those free users well. And then as a more mature product, you do now have multiple tiers. How do you effectively use that to target the less expensive tier in certain cases where maybe you know they're not going to get the full value. But then those super diehards, you want to make sure that they can pay you as much as they're willing to pay.

Brandon Gador:

My advice for the app builders out there is until you really have a clear user need around an additional tier, when is the opportunity to bring it in? Because I think by introducing it too early, it introduces all sorts of complexity into the business. And it ends up being, I think, more work than it's actually worth when you have a really clear, "Hey, this is our paid tier," you have different durations of it. And that becomes a really easy choice for the user to understand around like, "What are they paying for?"

And so, what really works well with the Hunt tiering package is that it's baked in a user problem around the access that you get across the country. So we have our premium product which is one state. We also have a premium two state package. And then, we have our top tier which is Elite, which is access to all 50 states plus Canada and Mexico.

I think from the user's perspective, it's really easy for them coming into onboarding, seeing the paywall. They can grok like, "Okay. I can understand the value or the difference between these different tiers." Whereas, if it's just a basket of features in the different tiers and you've sliced and diced it by an idea that you had, I think it's really tough for the user to understand what's the difference between these two and the value within them.

David Barnard:

In that Elite tier, I know you all have created some partnerships and added a lot of value like discounts to other brands and things like that that are actually really attractive. And again, something that onX can do as a much more mature product, as a bigger company, but this is the kind of thing I think a lot of people can be thinking about when you think about, "How do we add value?" Well, adding value isn't just that next feature you build. You can add value through partnerships and through so many other ways. So tell me how onX does that.

Brandon Gador:

This is a great point around how we think about the Elite tier. And there's been a constant effort around, "How do we round out the feature set and the value that we could provide our users within our highest paying tier?" And so, our Elite price is $100 which is a lot to ask for in the App Store.

David Barnard:

Which is funny because I don't think it is in a way, because I think you all still have a ton of room to grow monetization. Because I know a lot of hunters here in the Texas area and, I mean, you'll spend thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars, a year on this hobby. So yes, for an app, it's expensive. Broadly, probably not.

Brandon Gador:

Exactly. I think it's in the context of the user and what they're spending for their hobby, so you're totally right. But I think in the mindset of you're in the App Store and you're paying... $100 is a lot at the time. And so, a part of that strategy has been like, "How do we broaden the feature set and capabilities in our Elite package?" One component of that is the partnerships with brands. And so, as an Elite member, you get a discount or some sort of extra value with these partners that we have. And to your point, these hobbies are really expensive. And sometimes, the deals that you can get on these partners can make up the value of the app in a single purchase so you're exactly right.

David Barnard:

Do those partnerships also play into growth at all? Like when you partner with an outdoor clothing line like Camo and all that kind of stuff, do they help promote the app?

Brandon Gador:

Yeah. Exactly. To give you an example, in the Hunt product, we partnered with First Lite. And so, First Lite is an outdoor apparel company and so there's a lot of cross-promotion that happens between those two brands. That First Lite being a premier outdoor apparel company, when people see onX next to that, an association happens there. And so, we do a lot of cross-collaboration with these brands to help drive growth.

David Barnard:

What a great win-win where you're able to deliver value to your users and create those extra incentives for the premium tier. But then, you're also driving some extra growth and brand awareness through these partnerships. Any other specific examples around targeted upsells that you think the audience would be interested in?

Brandon Gador:

One of the areas where we've probably learned the most around these targeted upsells, and to your previous question around like, "How do we find that balance of not being intrusive in the experiences?" Well, one, is like, "How do you bake it natively into the experience?" And anytime you can naturally have that upgrade flow or that CTA as part of the natural user experience, that's where we've seen success. In as far as the user experience, because it's not like a jarring interruption.

But I'd say another really critical part of this is like the strategy is like the who and when. And so, who are the cohorts that you're targeting? And being really thoughtful around the specific cohorts and being able to target on different vectors. But then, the when and the context. And like how you think about the context of the user, "Did they recently interact with a particular feature? How long have they been with the product?" And I'd say it takes both of those. You need the who and the context to really be working together to be most impactful here.

I think the last part of that is, "How do you carry that through into the experience of the upgrade and the context of the value that you're communicating to the user when you've gotten them to kind of start that journey of the upgrade path?" I think AllTrails does a really nice job with with some of their upsells where, for instance like, if you're a free user and you interact with the 3D part of their map. Now, the paywall actually has this great highlight video of 3D and it's given you the value prop of 3D. And so, it goes back to that. And then, user experience I was referencing earlier is like, "How are you having that continuity through the entire upgrade?", is where you'll see the most impact.

David Barnard:

This has been so much fun, Brandon. I think there's so many tips folks can take away. Anything you wanted to share as we're wrapping up? Is the team hiring or anything else you wanted to share?

Brandon Gador:

No. I mean, first off, thank you, David, so much for having me on the podcast. I'm a huge fan of the work that you all are doing and I've learned a ton from the different guests that you've had, so I really appreciate everything you do there. I mean, last thing I'd say is onX, these are purpose-built products for folks that are trying to get out in the outdoors. And so, whether you're a backcountry skier, a hiker, an off-roader, or you're curious about hunting, check out some of our apps. They're pretty amazing products and yeah.

David Barnard:

Awesome. Thanks so much for joining me today. This is so much fun.

Brandon Gador:

Thanks, Dim.

David Barnard:

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